Curse

Spiritz · Mar 11, 2009, 12:56 PM // 12:56

lockpicks i think are in theory same as keys and probably same drop rate - i never recall being overburdened with keys in nm and same in hm - technically eotn is a bit different as lockpicks are required in nm instead of just hm.
Could be me but i hate comparing nm and hm - the results i feel are tainted so to speak.
Nm - is basically what it says and holds nothing that could be extra cept keys.
Hm - this is where things get tricky as you have items exempt from nm - lockpicks/elite tomes/tomes etc.
drop rates are same regardless of mode but if you throw in the extra random items it taints results.
For that reason any events/trophie drops i farm in nm as that seems to yield more of them - always hated doing uw in events as we used to get loads of event items and almost zero ectos.If your going for Fow armor or other stuff that uses ectos your best farming them after event.

Loot scaling regards party size - which as i said gaile said heros/hench tho they have a share of money and loot dont affect loot scaling as such - gw sees them as npc rather than human- taking this into account a1 and b1 would have similar results as gw see`s both as 1 player solo.Its when you add more human players into the party the results change.I know a lot of old players will recall pinning bk h/h and stealing their drops but that was fixed by anet ( grrrr ) - probably both an exploit and a flaw which would have boosted farming bots` drops at the time where we had serious bot probs.
And yes it does seem going back over a yr some things used to drop easily in regards to trophies and event items. 2 halloweens back i had orr embs galore and tot bags - that xmas both types of drops were bad and asking players who farmed halloween if they noticed a big drop in them droppin the reply was a big yes - but this drop was never verified by anet ( probably one of their many stealth updates that we dont see listed ( 3 updates in a night and 2 gets listed ... hmm ).Even xmas just gone and canthan new yr event drops sucked - i ended up just doing quests on a new chr rather than waste time farming - probably ended up with same amount of drops overall.

Anubis Servants · Mar 13, 2009, 03:20 PM // 15:20

This weekend for event drops I was thinking about having my second account tag along and sit by the zone in keg farming will this improve drop rate any?

ragnagard · Mar 13, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis Servants

This weekend for event drops I was thinking about having my second account tag along and sit by the zone in keg farming will this improve drop rate any?

Short Answer: nono
Long Answer: you may note a slightly increase in long term.

As I did that with guildies and my bro... you would get golden items and so on but.. not so big quantity of drop items.

The best part is that you can use your second account as a additional storage for golden items and gold (like if you got more than 100k on you haha

). Just assure yourself that your 2nd will be near the exit gate so the Keg lover guy wont follow it, and follow you.

WTB merchant NPC at Bjora!

BlueNovember · Mar 16, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

1) it was first city
2) the two kill builds had a very similar kill rate, just that one was AoE one wasn't.
3) I'm not sure, but has anybody been able to reproduce the effect? I personally tried many times with a friend in different areas with no luck.

So interesting as that thread was, it has no relevence to this discussion here, it did bnot address rate of kill.

Here is a test ANYONE can do. Same build, first killing things all together with an EoE bomb triggered by Spiteful Spirit.

Drops from fast kills

Second is exactly run and the same build but no EoE bomb, killing things at 30 second intervals with Price of Failure.

Drops from slow kills

Don't believe it? Try it, its not down to chance, you will get the same results every single time.

The thread is still relevant. It proves that drops are predetermined at zone time.
You could argue that you get _less_ of the predetermined drops if you kill fast, but any other hypothesis doesn't make sense.
(Your screenshot demonstrations imply you're suggesting you get worse drops if you kill fast, which I think cannot be the case if drops are predetermined).

Fay Vert · Mar 16, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

(Your screenshot demonstrations imply you're suggesting you get worse drops if you kill fast, which I think cannot be the case if drops are predetermined).

Guaranteed 100% reproducable. If you don't believe it, try it. Drops are determined by rate of kill. What's more, this affects full parties just as much as solo. My guild often does Urgoz runs, and depending on how it goes and who is available, the runs take between 40 mins and 1 hour, the 40 min runs never fill our inventories up, on the hour runs you need multiple salvage kits.

Coney · Mar 17, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Guaranteed 100% reproducable. If you don't believe it, try it. Drops are determined by rate of kill. What's more, this affects full parties just as much as solo. My guild often does Urgoz runs, and depending on how it goes and who is available, the runs take between 40 mins and 1 hour, the 40 min runs never fill our inventories up, on the hour runs you need multiple salvage kits.

This totally jives with my 4->5 minute boss run argument, killing the 10 non-bosses (1 minute) on the way. I think it's more than a time limit thing, tho...

BlueNovember · Mar 17, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Guaranteed 100% reproducable. If you don't believe it, try it. Drops are determined by rate of kill. What's more, this affects full parties just as much as solo. My guild often does Urgoz runs, and depending on how it goes and who is available, the runs take between 40 mins and 1 hour, the 40 min runs never fill our inventories up, on the hour runs you need multiple salvage kits.

Right, so it's quantity? That I could understand; as shown, drops are still predetermined, it's just the rate of kill that affects if they actually drop or not. (As opposed to their quality).

SimplyAmazing · Mar 17, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Just something i've noticed, and you can try it, works every time, when farming mobs, if they die from conditions/degen burning/bleeding/hexes etc, they rarely drop anything, but if you cast/attack the killing blow, they drop a lot. i don't know just something i've definitely noticed, so when using searing flames farming event items, i always try to give the final hit, honestly if i give the final blow, i get 10-11 drops off a mob, if i let them degen to death, i'm lucky if i get a pile of gold. And from my experience, repeating runs definitely yields less drops, and if i go advance my toon/do mish's etc, they return some-what, if i use a different char, it does not. just my personal experience.

Fay Vert · Mar 17, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

That doesn't fit with my experience, when I bow farm I use poison degen a lot and drops from this are generally excellent as its a slow way to farm. Mergoyle farming in scoundrels rise or nebu terrace are examples of this, you poison them and wait, no point attacking because of spirit shackels.

Arduin · Mar 17, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

1) it was first city
2) the two kill builds had a very similar kill rate, just that one was AoE one wasn't.
3) I'm not sure, but has anybody been able to reproduce the effect? I personally tried many times with a friend in different areas with no luck.

So interesting as that thread was, it has no relevence to this discussion here, it did bnot address rate of kill.

Anyone able to dig up that thread? Can't find it

SimplyAmazing · Mar 17, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

well, i don't know about poison, but fire definitely, when i pull the spiders, and the crocs in verdant cascades to the wall, and sf them to death, if i let them burn to death, nothing, i mean seriously i'm lucky to get a pile of gold, but if i deal the final damage with a cast, they all drop something.

Fay Vert · Mar 17, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Anyone able to dig up that thread? Can't find it

Here you go

_Nihilist_ · Mar 18, 2009, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Fay Vert, while most of your information is correct, and that is what the 2 Testers thought was going on, both of them were actually killing one at a time.

Why?

One was running a 55hp Spoil Victor Necromancer, the other was running a 55hp Shield of Judgment Monk. While Shield of Judgment does have the capability to kill multiple foes at once, even if they all die in the same instant, it's not counted as AoE because in order for Shield to deal damage, someone must attack the enchanted target. Since each enemy attacks the target individually, despite all attacking at the same time, you get a 1 at a time kill rather than an AoE mass kill.

A better way would have been for one to run either the 55hp SV or SoJ while the second ran an A/E or E/A Shadowform/PBAoE mass kill farm. THAT would have done more to clear up the information in question. However, in the end, both builds got nearly the exact same drops, and they sync'd entry into Farahnur - that does at least show that drops are possibly predetermined at instance/explorable area load time rather than completely random for each entry into an instance/explorable, if you get my meaning.

ragnagard · Mar 18, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

... that does at least show that drops are possibly predetermined at instance/explorable area load time rather than completely random for each entry into an instance/explorable, if you get my meaning.

Wouldn't be better to use the same build (and aprox same time killing) to prove that?

If two people enter at the same time(synced) and use the same build.. and if they get same drops... then drop is predetermined when loading (or something like that). After getting a true or false on that, different builds can be used being synced to determine if killing rate has something to do.

Worse part is the syncing one...

Nightow · Mar 18, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnagard

Wouldn't be better to use the same build (and aprox same time killing) to prove that?

If two people enter at the same time(synced) and use the same build.. and if they get same drops... then drop is predetermined when loading (or something like that). After getting a true or false on that, different builds can be used being synced to determine if killing rate has something to do.

Worse part is the syncing one...

This would definately be interesting to test out.

Now only if someone out there had 2 PCs with 2 GW accounts on the same LAN with a bud to help them test this out.

Hmm....

Sir Cusfreak · Mar 18, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

which as i said gaile said heros/hench tho they have a share of money and loot dont affect loot scaling as such - gw sees them as npc rather than human-

Gaille said that where? when? anybody have a source on this, by any chance?

also it was said that ANET killed being able to post H/H by the gate and get thier drops. When did they do this, and is it described in some update notes/devtalk somewhere or something? because it still *seems* to work, of course I cant prove it, but it sure seems to me that drops are better when I do this than when I go in truly solo. Could be a perception, but if a dev talked about this i'd love to read it - any info on source info would be appreciated.

ragnagard · Mar 18, 2009, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

This would definately be interesting to test out.

Now only if someone out there had 2 PCs with 2 GW accounts on the same LAN with a bud to help them test this out.

Hmm....

Yeah I think that having 2 pc on the same router (LAN) with 2 (really more) accounts on my room and my bro playing with me shall work, rofl.
WTB syncing method xDD.

But I am almost reluctant to get the expected results. I mean, I bet we wont get the same things xD.

Fay Vert · Mar 18, 2009, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

This would definately be interesting to test out.

Now only if someone out there had 2 PCs with 2 GW accounts on the same LAN with a bud to help them test this out.

Hmm....

I did exactly that, read towards the end of that thread. I posted two screenshots (as in this thread), same build, but different kill rates. I tried sync entry with a friend. Not once could we get matching drops. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has been able to verify that thread, I tried!

Not that I think it's a fake, I don't. If you think about it, its obvious that the zone is generated on the server rather than the client (aka hack central). Its also not unusual for "time" to seed the random number generation. So the sync entry should stack up very well, and we were able to confirm identical mob spawns quite easily, but this did not translate into identical drops, so something else appears to be going on. Either way fast kill = low drops, slow kill = high drops.

infamous16 · Mar 19, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I did exactly that, read towards the end of that thread. I posted two screenshots (as in this thread), same build, but different kill rates. I tried sync entry with a friend. Not once could we get matching drops. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has been able to verify that thread, I tried!

Not that I think it's a fake, I don't. If you think about it, its obvious that the zone is generated on the server rather than the client (aka hack central). Its also not unusual for "time" to seed the random number generation. So the sync entry should stack up very well, and we were able to confirm identical mob spawns quite easily, but this did not translate into identical drops, so something else appears to be going on. Either way fast kill = low drops, slow kill = high drops.

I believe its fake...some of the drops are in the EXACT same spots, and you could easily pick em up and drop somewhere else.

photoshop isnt that hard.

Edge Igneas · Mar 19, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I think the drop quality decreases indeed somehow. When I was A/E Raptor farming a couple months back, I remember the first times I was farming I made about 40k a day, not bad, I got 2 black dyes, 4 whites, over 100 gold items (7unids=5k) scrolls and tomes.

Right now im lucky if I get a single gold drop, I still get plently of tomes and other items on the list of scaled looting, but the thing that bothers me the most is a lack of gold items, I usually get about 1 gold every 3-5 runs, when before I usually always got 1 or 2 on a single run.

Thats just my view on it, I laughed a couple weeks after some heavy farming at some guy who was talking in Rata Sum about how eventually the mobs stop dropping, now im in the same position

All the raptors drop is cheap spears or saurian bones. So I started farming in different spots.

Maybe its luck, but to me it sure looks this way.